Where to buy capacitors.

[Brundle Fly]

Alright, I checked Radio S*ack online, the have caps, but not what I need.

Here's the problem, my old DFI was unstable due to blown caps, 2 to be exact. They are 2700uf, 6.3volt. What does that mean? I don't have freakin clue, heh heh heh 

Closet thing I could find at RS was this: http://www.Radio S*ack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=family&pg=10&allCount=102&cp=2032058.2032230.2032267&fbn=Brand%2FRadio S*ack&f=Brand%2F1000094%2F&productId=2102508&fbc=1&tab=techSpecs and I doubt that will work. I'm going to swap the caps out, got that part figured out, but finding the right caps is a different story.

The caps on the board are G-Luxon, 1087(M),  LZ 105Celcius, and as I already stated 2700uf 6.3volt. Here's a couple pics:





The cap in the foreground is obviously blown, the one in the middle of the row of three now looks the same, bulged out on top, leaking brownish crap.

Now, any ideas where I can find such beasties? I'm not so sure I want G-Luxon caps, I mean, these were bad to begin with, DFI had a big problem with these caps, which I didn't hear about, nor know about, until long after my warranty was up. This board was stable at first, then got pretty bad. That's when I heard about the bad caps, had a look at mine, and saw my mobo was dying.

Anyhow, I'm looking for a source for capacitors, where might a good online dealer be at?

Thanks guys, I figure one of you electronic gurus in here knows where to buy capacitors online. 

[justDIY]

I think just about any electronics supply house should have what you need ... Nichicon and Panasonic are supposedly creme de la creme of capacitors

However, for a board as old as yours, I wouldn't worry about getting the best for it.

in no particular order, check out these surplus vendors - problem is they don't often specify the size of their capacitors

www.bgmicro.com , www.allelectronics.com

there there are hobby houses like:

www.web-tronics.com , www.glitchbuster.com , www.jameco.com

and then your main stream supply houses:

www.digikey.com , www.mouser.com , www.newarkinone.com

main stream supply houses will deffinately get you top of the line caps matching the specs and size exactly, but you have to sift through 1000's of results (mousers online search is very poor), and you're also stuck with minimum quanity and minimum dollar amount restrictions.

Also, be aware the conventional soldering iron doesn't work very well on a motherboard, heck, even my moderately high-end iron doesn't work that well ... it's because a motherboard is 2, 3 or 4pcb layers sandwiched together - and it is really good at sinking heat, and to to top that off, through-hole components are usually affixed with lead-free solder which needs extra iron power to undo.

[Brundle Fly]

I get a wee bit lost when searching on these sites, but that's not really an issue. The voltage, on the otherhand, how important is that? Could I go with a higher voltage cap, or would a lower voltage cap work? I'm having a prob finding a 6.3volt cap with the 2700uf rating.

I have no idea how important these specs are, I don't know if a higher rated cap will work, or if a lower rated cap, if I can't find the one I want, will work.

I build and OC systems, I don't build mobo's, so I'm kinda lost here.

No, top of the line caps are not required, you're quite right about that DIY, I just want functioning caps.

I found a good walkthrough for replacing the caps, not a prob.

Thanks for your help dude. 

[justDIY]

well, the digikey parametric search engine is really nice... so it is the easiest way to get the parts you want

unfortunately, they don't allow linking from their searches, so I can't give you any links to get started with

First, visit this page:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?KeyWordSearch&site=us

For keywords, enter: capacitor electrolytic
Be sure to check the In Stock checkbox

Should only come up with one or two results, click on the Electrolytic keyword under Capacitors, this will take you to the parametric search.

Now you can select the values you need from the boxes, and hit apply filters... you'll have to dink with it a while to get all the part numbers you're after.

The capacitors you have pictures are al l "radial" type ... 6.3v is very common for 5v and 3v logic circuits... They shouldn't be at all hard to find.   You can safely substitute up a voltage ... that is if you need 6.3v, a 16v cap will work fine ... but!  the voltage and capacitance determines the size of the cap, so higher voltage = larger size... the leads might not line up with the holes, and closely packed caps might not fit at all.  Not only do you have to worry about matching voltage and capacitance, but also size ... many manuf. have different series, like low profile, ultralow profile, long life, etc...

The part number for Nichicon 2700uF 6.3v cap: 493-1473-ND ... it is an "HE" series, their longest life cap rated at 10000 hrs
Here's the same cap in a smaller size: 493-1713-ND ... this one is only rated at 8000 hours

This link should get you a page of various Panasonic capacitors:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T053/0963.pdf

that might be the best approach, download someone's catalog and look through it, rather then trying to search

[Brundle Fly]

Thank you DIY, you "da man"! The PDF catalog did the trick, I do believe I found what I need with a Panasonic part# P12708-ND. 

I'm going to snag 10 of them, that would allow me to change the whole set of 5, twice, should I ever have to. For $10, tax-incl, plus shipping/handling, it's hard to go wrong. If these cost me $20, I'm a happy camper.

This will be very interesting, this board has never performed at the level it was designed to, it had bad caps from the start, I just didn't know it. I want to set up a "folding farm" eventually, I have quite a few socket370 CPU's kicking around, but I want stable boards for them, that are over-clockable. If this DFI CA64-TN is stable, and OC-able, with new caps, I may just scoop a couple more mobos and get the "farm" going.

Thanks again man, your time and effort is VERY much appreciated. 

[Rob]

It never hurts to have a confidence builder--check out this thread at GT forums wehere someone started from about where you did and had a successful outcome:
http://forums.gideontech.com/index.php/topic,31858.0.html

See also: http://www.badcaps.com/

[Brundle Fly]

Ah yes, that's where I found the tutorial, badcaps.com. I read about swapping caps out some time back, but I didn't consider that as an option, that DFI was my only mobo at the time, and if I pooched it, I was out of a computer.

The DFI still works right now, but it can't be OC'ed at all, and even running at stock speeds, it crashes quite often, which was very annoying, to say the least.

I guess I could have asked over at badcaps about the correct caps, but I knew someone in here would have the answer for me. Besides, I just don't like joining a forum to ask one question, get an answer, and then leave. Makes me feel like I "used" them, without contributing anything. Damn parents, I musta raised them wrong! Heh heh heh. 

[Brundle Fly]

Okay, finally got around to ordering my caps, now I need to get the right soldering iron. So, according to badcaps.com, I need to heat my iron up to 450C, how many watts is that? As in, how big(watts wise) does my iron have to be to heat up to 450C?

Also, I should have a grounded soldering station. Can I not just ground the soldering iron to the mobo? Same thing, right?

I don't intend to kick out $100 for a soldering iron when that's the cost of new mobo, that would be rather pointless.

Thanks guys. 

[justDIY]

lock some vice-grips on those caps, and heat the solder side with a paint stripper gun ... use the smallest gauge (hole) nozzle you have for the gun

a regular soldering iron is not going to melt the solder they use on motherboards, at least, none of the units I have could (even my new Xytronic)

for motherboard repair, they sell a special catalyst metal, that decreases the melting point of solder, and allows you to desolder parts 'safely' - its expensive though.

good luck and take pictures, whatever course of action you take!

[Brundle Fly]

A paint stripper will do the trick? Cool(or hot, as the case may be), but wouldn't a 140watt iron heat it that much? I can score one for $25.

If I buy a stripper, and then still need an iron to solder the new caps in, once again, I'm spending more than the mobo is worth.

My kingdom for a decent overclocking socket 370 mobo!

[justDIY]

A paint stripper will do the trick? Cool(or hot, as the case may be), but wouldn't a 140watt iron heat it that much? I can score one for $25.

If I buy a stripper, and then still need an iron to solder the new caps in, once again, I'm spending more than the mobo is worth.

My kingdom for a decent overclocking socket 370 mobo!

problem with high-power irons, they basicly short a large current across the tip itself, dispensing with a heating element ... this is a major no-no for semiconductors ... leaked (from the tip) and induced current in the circuitboard can damage parts real easy

I can't think of an economical method for you to try, other than borrowing a stripper from someone ... motherboard repair is more expensive than buying new unfortunately.

socket370 is real old technology, further reducing the value of any repairs!

[Brundle Fly]

I know the iron throws a lot of current out, that's why they say a "grounded" iron at badcaps.com. Tis why I'm asking if grounding the iron myself, from the tip(shaft leading to the tip) to the mobo, nullifies that?

As for cost, well, I have 2 unlocked 1.26ghz Tualatins here, that will do 2ghz easy, but I need a board for them. They cost me a C-Note for the pair. I got my caps today, my supplier got them through digikey, $3.05 each Canadian. $15 for 5, kinda steep, but I was okay with that. Then digikey tossed in $10 shipping, and $8.50 handling. My opinion? Digikey blows, never again, I'll find them elsewhere. I was shown the invoice when I got the caps, the S&H was charged by digikey, my supplier charged me nothing extra, they were as pissed as I am. 

Okay, such is life, grand total, after taxes? $37.96 Canadian. I am now going to buy a soldering gun, I have come this far, these caps with what must be a 24K gold coating, are going on this mobo. I can buy a new mobo, same as I'm fixing, for $120 shipped. $40 for caps, $25 for iron, $65 mobo, and I know if it will clock these chips well. If it does, I buy another mobo, and I have two decent systems for yardapes to do homework on.

If it doesn't do well, I'll be putting a matched set of Tualatins up on eBay, these rock on an iWill dualie board, bonus for a server.

Worst case scenario, I end up with a dead mobo. Better, I end up with a working mobo, that doesn't clock these chips that well. Even better, the mobo works, and clocks well, which means I'll snag another. 

So, next Friday I'll pick up the iron(140/100watt adjustable), and see what happens. I'll ground it to the mobo, desolder the caps, solder in the new ones, and hope for the best.

Got the Panasonic caps BTW. 

[justDIY]

I know the iron throws a lot of current out, that's why they say a "grounded" iron at badcaps.com. Tis why I'm asking if grounding the iron myself, from the tip(shaft leading to the tip) to the mobo, nullifies that?

that's not grounding ... what you describe would basically mean you're raising the motherboard to line-voltage potential, the same that exists at the tip of the soldering gun.   that's not a good idea, because then when you touch the board, you yourself will be providing a grounding path (your mass alone will be a low potential, causing current to flow), and if you touch something else, like the floor ... bzzt!

motherboard repair is done with a tool called a hot-air rework station ... its basically a heater, some insulated tubing and a powerfull fan.   The same basic parts of a paint stripper gun.

was okay with that. Then digikey tossed in $10 shipping, and $8.50 handling. My opinion? Digikey blows, never again, I'll find them elsewhere. I was shown the invoice when I got the caps, the S&H was charged by digikey, my supplier charged me nothing extra, they were as pissed as I am. 

Digikey doesn't really cater to low volume / hobbiest crowd - they're a major supplier for businesses buying parts for limited / small production runs.  Had your supplier informed you of Digikey's minimum purchase policy, some of those charges could have been avoided.   Of course shipping is expensive ... but a lot of that is thanks to the oil companies ... freight fuel costs are through the roof right now.   What probably got you is a volumetric price ... your capacitors may have only weighed a few ounces, but they had to ship in a box big enough to handle the antistatic and padding materials ... if they'd dropped them into a padded envelope and sent them out, it would have been a lot less expensive for everyone.

I once had a mis-ship on some parts, they had sent the incorrect package size for a few hundred surface mount resistors... so I let them know about it, and the new resistors were on their way, they arrived in a fairly good sized box, and it was all packing material, the 200 resistors would have fit easily in a post-card sized envelope.   Oh well

So, next Friday I'll pick up the iron(140/100watt adjustable), and see what happens. I'll ground it to the mobo, desolder the caps, solder in the new ones, and hope for the best.

sounds like you mind is made up, so why ask here?  my professional opinion is that plan is dangerous and a bad idea, however perhaps the fates are smiling upon you and you will soon have a full functional board.

[Brundle Fly]

sounds like you mind is made up, so why ask here?  my professional opinion is that plan is dangerous and a bad idea, however perhaps the fates are smiling upon you and you will soon have a full functional board.

Whoa dude! I'm not tossing your opinion out the window! I value the opinion of all you "vets" in here, you guys are into this stuff, and I do listen.

At the same time, I was sent to badcaps.com, from here, and in the forum, in the cap replacement guide, it says to use an iron that puts out 350C, but to make sure it's grounded to the mobo, grounding to the metal around the mouse/USB ports works. Rob posted the link, and I had already been there myself, so I figured that those guys knew what they were talking about.

They do everything with a soldering gun(electric), so point me in the right direction for grounding myself and the gun, if you could. Thanks. 

[Brundle Fly]

Okay, so after 2 1/2 hours of reading through badcaps forums, I still did not get a picture of a grounded soldering iron.

Now, I imagine this is no high-tech deal, I take it to mean that the cord has three prongs on it, one of course being the ground. Am I correct in this?

After thinking about what justDIY said, I really don't want to complete a circuit with my body. Having completed many circuits in the past using my body, I know this is not all that much fun. My "favourite" time was trying to get my old 399 Olympic Ski-Doo home with a bad coil wire. I had to hold it into the coil tower. I was happy to finally get home. Nice engine, but the coils just burned the ends off the coil wires. I digress.

So, I read through everything again, it seems I misunderstood what was said at badcaps, a grounded iron is needed, and it's also advisable to ground yourself with a wrist-strap. That's why I asked in here, just in case I was missing something, and I was. After kicking out $40 for caps, I don't want to fry the mobo using an un-grounded iron, kind of defeats the purpose.

I can scoop a Weller soldering iron, 40W, for $25. I can't tell by the pic if it's grounded or not, and I'd also like to know if that provided it has a 3 prong plug that it's definitely grounded. In other words, this will mean that the tip is grounded. I read other people stating they don't worry about whether or not the iron is grounded and have no probs. Well, I won't know if this mobo clocks well until the caps are changed, they were bad from day one, I knew nothing about bad caps when I first got the mobo, I always thought my Celery just didn't OC very well. An overclocking buddy of mine then told me about bad caps on certain DFI boards, I checked mine, and there they were.

I don't want to purchase another mobo, same flavour, not knowing if it performs like I want it to, so I won't risk frying this one. Although I do work on my own system without a wrist-strap, I keep myself grounded to the chassis at all times. It's a shortcut I only take with my own system, I don't do that with a customer's system, even though I find the strap very inconvenient. No shortcuts on this deal, I really want these chips up and running, I've had them for over a year, it's really starting to bug me that they just sit there in their boxes.

I do value your opinion/knowledge justDIY, tis why I went back and re-read the badcaps tutorials, I figured I had to have missed something. Anyhow, thanks for your input, it's much appreciated, and probably just saved me a fried mobo, and possibly a very nice "jolt".