LED Christmas lights from Philips

[Rob]

http://led.linear1.org/led-christmas-lights-from-philips/




Let's hear what you think about them.

[justDIY]

The socket, wires and locking tab all look "out of scale" compared to the tiny 5mm diodes

you'd think in dealing with mass production quanities 8mm leds with 100°+ lenses would have been only fractionally more expensive.

Sucks to hear about the 60hz ... when I was younger, I could perceive difference frequencies up to about 85hz ...I can still see a 60hz flicker, but no longer can tell the difference between 75 and 85 hz

It really sounds and looks like they retrofitted a standard mini-light set with led 'bulbs'.

I imagine Phillips sole involvement was suppling the semiconductor chips inside the leds, I doubt they laid a hand on it from there.

I've got a Phillips toaster - it does an excellent job on bagels and english muffins, but even on its lowest setting burns toaster pastries and white breads

Thanks for the article ... sounds like Kansas is a bit ahead of Michigan in pre-season xmas, our local store (kmart) is starting to gear up but hasn't reached critical mass yet.

[Rob]

What's interesting is that I hunted down the patent and patent application from Forever Bright/Fiber Optic products, Inc. For their form of directly AC-driven LED strings:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6461019.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6830358.html

To summarize--big string of LEDs is directly attached to AC, ideally with two separate strings in opposite polaritys.

I wonder if Philips licensed this patent from Forever Bright? 

[NoMercy]

I recently bought a cheep set of LED christmas lights, though the quality of construction was somewhat dubious, and the 50Hz flicker (I'm from the UK) was noticable (espically if you move them around), the LED's themselves were no more than 3mm in diameter, with a concave lens which has the effect of scattering the light well enough to be seen from virtually any angle.

Still tempted to break into the little control box to rig up a simple controller with a higher frequency output, not like I'm ever going to use the 8 pre-programed horrific flashing effects

[Rob]

Welcome to the boards. Sounds like a worthy project, let us know how it goes!

[NoMercy]

Well, armed with my trusty bench supply, multimeter and wire cutters... I discover this set actually runs quite happilly from a DC source, got a rather funky wiring mind, seems to be a multi wire arangement to create essentially two sets of LED's each of which split into two serial circuits, seems the AC adapter was most likely chosen as it would provide a cheep clock source for the control unit

Openig the unit, it looks pretty cheep, guess you get what you pay for, a full bridge rectifier supplys the current for the LEDs and the control circuit, though only the control cuircuit has any filtering on it's supply, the LEDs though driven by a DC controller, and rectified, being un-filtered flicker like beggery anyway.

I've ripped out the control circuit, since I didn't go much on any of the programs, and adding a smoothing cap seems to have removed all noticible flicker , though theres bound to be some ripple on it which I can't easilly measure with the tools I've got here .

They are noticily brighter with the smoothing, and probably draw more current (though I suppose it's more efficient now), also they do glow dimly for some time after the powers off.. spooky, ok it's just the over-sized smoothing cap

[justDIY]

great work!

any way you can post some pics of the now removed guts?

[Rob]

yeah, we need pics!

[jmccorm]

...seems the AC adapter was most likely chosen as it would provide a cheep clock source for the control unit Openig the unit, it looks pretty cheep, guess you get what you pay for, a full bridge rectifier supplys...

That's pretty crazy. I think I need to stop you there.

The Philips christmas lights have no such AC adapter or control unit. To the trained and untrained eye, it looks exactly like a regular christmas light set except the bulbs are a little bit different. That means the regular size christmas light plug in front has the fuse built in and a place to piggyback another plugin. And at the end of the set is another normal 110vac outlet. Totally a normal christmas light set. No AC adapter. No funny circuitry to dig into. Are you describing the same set, just all of this is hidden inside the tiny electrical plug (with the piggyback plug on back)?

Regarding the review at the given URL, I think I'd agree "not recommended" from the position of an LED fanatic, but not from someone trying to decorate their house for Christmas.

I think the main argument I see is the flickering. Inside, I *believe* I could just barely perceive the flicker. When I moved around the bulbs with my hand, I could absolutely see the flicker. When it was stationary, I'm not sure. I think outdoors is a completely different story. Up on the house, I don't seem to perceive a hint of flicker. I think from a flicker perspective, I'd call them borderline for inside use (questionable if you are an LED/electronics fanatic, less so if you're a normal kind of person). For outdoor use, I'd mark flicker as a non-issue.

The high points of these lights would be the color purity, which appears to be quite good. Really contrasts favorably against regular christmas light sets. Nice solid blue color to it. Also brighness. These things are BRIGHT. As a plus and minus, they are focused forward and not a full 180 degree arc of full brightness. But even with that disadvantage, they're amazingly bright.

Also included are two replacement bulbs. Why? Probably just to make you feel good.

From a lighting perspective for outside, they're awesome. Side-by-side, I think they'd more than outperform a good 130 count mini-light set. I'd say that these LED lights are more condensed/concentrated/saturated that a normal light set. I think the real issues with the Philips family of lights are cost, and the number of lights in a set (again, cost). Just the price of paying $10-$14 for a 60-70 light set. Long term, they're a good value. But that can be an awfully long wait.

Aside from the bonus of being able to string an incredible number of these together, I personally find value in that I can leave them plugged in all day to different circuits and not bother with on;off gadgets or turning them out manually. Let them burn the electricity of running 24x7 because it is almost nothing. (You can tell I'm not an environmentalist, right?)

Here is a thread in a different forum where people are discussing them (with pictures):
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1169519

My bottom line:

Sure, you could buy these for the energy savings. But I think the better reason to buy these are for the excellent color and brightness. Secondary for lifespan (outrageous), stringing (outrageous), or 24/7 use. I'd put long term $$$ as the last reason.

I really think they're going about making and marketing these the wrong way. They should sell them as _better_ than christmas lights (and fix the flicker). Go for the high end.

[justDIY]

...seems the AC adapter was most likely chosen as it would provide a cheep clock source for the control unit Openig the unit, it looks pretty cheep, guess you get what you pay for, a full bridge rectifier supplys...

That's pretty crazy. I think I need to stop you there.

The Philips christmas lights have no such AC adapter or control unit. To the trained and untrained eye, it looks exactly like a regular christmas light set except the bulbs are a little bit different. That means the regular size christmas light plug in front has the fuse built in and a place to piggyback another plugin. And at the end of the set is another normal 110vac outlet. Totally a normal christmas light set. No AC adapter. No funny circuitry to dig into. Are you describing the same set, just all of this is hidden inside the tiny electrical plug (with the piggyback plug on back)?

Welcome to the forums!

I think the quote you chose is out of context... I have quoted the original post text to help clarify things:

I recently bought a cheep set of LED christmas lights, though the quality of construction was somewhat dubious, and the 50Hz flicker (I'm from the UK) was noticable (espically if you move them around), the LED's themselves were no more than 3mm in diameter, with a concave lens which has the effect of scattering the light well enough to be seen from virtually any angle.

Still tempted to break into the little control box to rig up a simple controller with a higher frequency output, not like I'm ever going to use the 8 pre-programed horrific flashing effects

NoMercy is talking about a light set different from the lights Rob reviewed.

Hey, another "pro" of the flicker, perceptable or not, more power savings ... since each light has roughly a 50% duty cycle, thanks to the lack of rectification!

[jmccorm]

I think the quote you chose is out of context... I have quoted the original post text to help clarify things:

Ackkkkk! I didn't just quote him out of context, I read his entire message out of context. Okay. He wasn't talking about the Philips. My apologies.

Regarding Rob's review, I like the mass of details and information in there. Really really good stuff. I guess here is where I really disagree with Rob:

Rob believes it is a product for the die-hard LED enthusiast, but they get it wrong with the flicker and the price. My take on this is that it is a product that isn't marketed at LED enthusiasts at all, but that its selling features are poorly marketed (increased ruggedness, increased lifespan, very vivid colors, increased brightness, cool temperature, massive string chaining*). It seems that their marketing though only really gives emphasis to the long term cost aspect of it. Here are some of what I think are the most positive aspects:

* Vivid colors: No more washed out reds and whitish blues. You can paint your house with real color this year that will stand out compared to regular bulbs. These bulbs are saturated. (Side note: I do notice some slight wavelength variation between a few bulbs when I look for it.)

* Brigther bulbs: Just a few of these LED bulbs have the impact of many more regular bulbs. These are smaller and brigther than regular mini christmas lights. A little of these go a long ways.

* Cool Temperature (heat): You can make your christmas tree blaze with color without the risk that the heat from hundreds of regular bulbs will bring. Your Christmas tree will be the envy of the neighbors... from the street! (As a side note, many years ago, I made a small art project of blinking christmas lights in a transparent skull. Heat really was a big problem for me in the enclosed glass.)

* Ruggedness/Durability/Less Problems: I'm not sure if the manufacturer REALLY wants to go down this road and outright make a promise. I'd think more because of the wiring than the bulbs themselves. And they include two spare bulbs, which is crazy good.

* Energy savings: Yeah. You know the story about LEDs and energy This would have been the year to really play it up.

* Carefree operation: One good aspect of the energy savings (combined with the cool temperature and lifespan) is that you can just leave these lights on 24x7 and not even fiddle with turning them off and on. Since I've got lights on three circuits, I'm not feeling too guilty about leaving it running all the time. (But the concept is hard to market.)

* Chaining: Equal to regular lights. As mentioned in your article. I wonder, though, if other aspects of the wiring would stand in the way of a less strict UL guideline.

They've got these things where they're equal to mini christmas lights in every respect except for flicker and cost. But they have an edge in several additional areas that make them quite superior to regular mini christmas lights. So while your review says 'not recommended', I actually would say that they're very recommended for outdoor use if you can justify the cost (for "better than regular christmas lights" to "long term savings"). Indoor, I wouldn't recommend unless you're looking to super-saturate a tree with lighting or color.

My biggest concern, however, is matching these from year to year. They're still getting better, so I've got to imagine that if I want to buy additional LED based lights two years from now, they're going to be different in a perceivable way. (Wavelength, intensity, size,  focus, etc). Having bought 1000+ LEDs worth of these, that is probably the single aspect that has me the most concerned about making a large investment in these.

...now, my disagreement with Rob may only be because I first saw his review on a website that said "LED center", and certainly not within the confines of something like case modding. The aspect of bright lights with low heat might be good for some niche situations, but he's right that the flicker would be likely deal killer in that context.

UPDATE: Why does this keep changing my spelling to BRIGtheR instead of B R I G H T E R ? It is switching the H T E to T H E !

[justDIY]

Those are some excellent postive points regarding the lights.  Sounds like you have a LOT of these, so, I expect to see some pictures once you get everything hooked up!

[Rob]

jmmccorm, Welcome to the boards.

I appreciate your taking the time to outline the case in favor of these lights. Your list of benefits is prettycomplete, and I can tell that you have spent some time with these lights.

I'm curious if you were using the ones wirth the molded plastic "lenses" on each "bulb?" The ones I reviewed had standard hemispherical domes like a 5mm LED, and the "brightness" was strongly dependent on the view angle. I know they offer a variety of diffuser/lens shapes, including snowflakes.

The Philips review is sort of "half the story" in terms of LED christmas lights. I have another brand's set in the review process right now, and the punchline is that they will be getting my recommendation. All the benefits you listed are generic to LED lights, and not specifically features of the Philips product.

The entire purpose of having a discussion thread for each article was to foster this kind of discussion, so I'm glad you took the time to participate. I'd sure like it if you'd post some pics of your installation, though. (nudge nudge)

And on the spelling, I had a forum feature set up to correct one of my common typos, "hte" into the, so I've now disabled that since I can't figure out how to make it stop mangling that string in the middle of words. The good news is that all the text you enetered is now as you enetered it, but the bad news is that your question about it would look strange now that I've removed the spelling correction (hence this note).

[jmccorm]

I'm curious if you were using the ones wirth the molded plastic "lenses" on each "bulb?" The ones I reviewed had standard hemispherical domes like a 5mm LED, and the "brightness" was strongly dependent on the view angle. I know they offer a variety of diffuser/lens shapes, including snowflakes.

I did notice that aspect. The 70-pack icicle type was the standard 5mm LED variety with a focused lens. It was very bright when pointed at an object. A side view was still bright, but can't compare to a head-on view. I can agree with that being more bug than feature. Although, on the feature side, it makes for interesting random spotlights of color on the wall. Also, various random LEDs will point at the street and be significantly brighter to the eye. So as you drive by, certain dots will be glimmer brighter than others. I guess a focused lens is controversial?

For others reading this, the 70-pack icicle LED is where you have a horizontal wire, and then coming down from that horizontal wire are vertical lines of wires with LEDs. Not to be confused with actual icicle SHAPED lights. For the curious, the actual pattern is:

5 2 4 3 5 2 4 3 5 2 4 3 5 2 4 3 5 2 4 3

In addition to those, I have four packs of the LEDs with the molded plastic lights on some small topiary evergreen trees. Here is a good representation of what the bulbs look like: http://www.christmaslightsetc.com/LED-mini-lights.htm

On those, I can see them better when it is cloudy or becoming dark before I see the standard LED bulbs. At night, the intensity of the encased/shaped LEDs seems to be pretty relative to the bare exposed ones.

The Philips review is sort of "half the story" in terms of LED christmas lights. I have another brand's set in the review process right now, and the punchline is that they will be getting my recommendation. All the benefits you listed are generic to LED lights, and not specifically features of the Philips product.

Point taken. I guess in that respect, if I focus on this product versus standard Christmas lights, I could recommend them. But if I compare the Philips to other LED lights, I could understand a non-recommendation and room for improvement.

I'm interested to see the review. Actually, I'm more interested to see if I can get that brand locally! The Philips bulbs at Target are the ONLY led bulbs I've managed to find this year.

The entire purpose of having a discussion thread for each article was to foster this kind of discussion, so I'm glad you took the time to participate. I'd sure like it if you'd post some pics of your installation, though. (nudge nudge)

Your article was one of the few on-topic items to come up with a search for "philips string lights" (without the quotes). That eventually led me here. I'm glad it did because I've been doing some neat tinkering with RGB LEDs and using them as a persistence of vision display. (MAX 6956 chip driving intensity via current control and not PWM.)

Regarding the installation pics, I've got a picture, but I consider it crappy. My camera just can't seem to capture anything close to what the eye is seeing. Low light makes it worse, but it may be because of a white house and lots of relatively dark colors. The LEDs appear near-white and the blue glow on everything just doesn't come out well. Multiple experiments with exposure didn't help. Also tried turning on the flash with a slow shutter mode, but that didn't help. Thinking about it some more, maybe I shut turn off the auto white balance in the camera. It could be picking up on the 'everything is blue' and correcting it to be more white.

UPDATE: Here is my current (crappy) picture:



"LET IT SNOW"
1000+ LEDs

This is my first attempt at a Christmas light display. It is built around the theme "let it snow". Of course, you see the icicle lights around the house. The four topiary everygreen trees in front have lights, too. On the carport is a giant snow-globe with a snowman inside. It actually is snowing inside the globe with a motor deliverying little tiny styrofoam snowflakes up to the top, to fall back down to the bottom. On the wall behind the snow globe, a motion projector creates some large projected white snowflakes falling down the the house. (Extended shutter time blurs the image of the snowflakes into white blobs.)

What really isn't showing up in this picture is the blueness. And the blue LEDs themselves are whitish in this picture. You can see, however, the little blue spotlights they create on the walls on the left hand side. On the right hand side, you can kind of get a better picture of the blue glow they cast on everything. But the entire picture to too white and not blue enough to match reality.

[Rob]

Still, it's a great pic, thanks for sharing! You don't get to see over 1000 LEDs all that often.